Go to the following link and develop a better understanding of health care and the controversy that surrounds the new bill.
1. Click the bottom link on economics and the Italian Suit analogy. Let's face it...most of us don't get the Italian suit. Explain the article and construct another analogy that can be understood by all of us.
2. Look at the video and article targeting the elderly and Medicare. Why are older Americans afraid of the reforms. On the other hand, are they also supportive? What are the main concerns. Watch the video if possible--great singing!
3. You have a choice--read about the Milwaukee clinic or the Villains piece on Humana insurance. Summarize the article and comment. Are he insurance companies being unfairly hammered? What can be done about the care for the poor? How can more doctors be recruited to serve?
Kenneth Wisman Pd.1
ReplyDeleteOh my god...I'm actually one of the first people to finish! It's Sunday too, so what the crap was everybody doing for the past two days...I guess I have no life...crap. *smack*
1.This article basically explains the reference from the Italian suit to the Health Care bill that Obama's proposing and it shows some examples on how much money will be nneded and how much revenue and subsisities will be used. A better analogy would be if you want to buy some cookies for $2.50, but they're on sale for $1.50, you have a whole $1.00 to use on more cookies! This analogy explains how much the US will be left with in the long run when the Health Care bill is in effect.
2. I can easily see why older people are afraid of healthcare reform because if its passed, they might lose their good coverage as well, which did help them a whole lot before. Having to pay for everybody in the US would cause the elderly to lose most of their good coverage and they wouldn't get as much to help easily pay for their bills. Most elderly are also regretting their choice to vote for Obama because they could lose their coverage and the'd have to wait behind younger people to get medical aid as well. Those poor old people...I feel sorry for them.
3.Wow everybody hammers those poor health Insurance Companies...but some people have good reasons to do so. I think that the poor should have their own type of insurance companies just for them so they don't screw with the companies that are around now. It'd make things easier for most people too. More doctors could easily be recruited if they were given a reason to help more people, like if the hospitals and insurance companies worked together to help people instead of them being seperate and one paying the other.
@All the other AP gov't students
Since there's no one to comment on I thought I'd say a few things to you guys. The universal health care bill will help a lot of people in the long run I think, but it will have some unexpected causulties which will suck...but what else would we do for the poor people? Hand them free money and let them get free coverage or make them work for it a bit while still being fair to everybody else?
@Mr. Hoover
This blog was very informal so thanks for picking it to blog about this week. I hope that the poor elderly people don't get left in the dirt though...
Posting from my desk:
ReplyDelete- The suit thing shows that the money we save is just gonna be spent anyway... so is it really being saved? That's what I took from the article, at least.
- Of old people and Medicare: Some old folks are afraid that the new universal healthcare stuff is going to be detrimental to their Medicare; sorta like the Robin Hood taking from rich and giving to poor stuff. Also, some people are afraid they won't be able to choose their own doctor anymore.
- I read the "Villians" article, for the record. Yes, the Dems/Obama have made out the healthcare companies to be faceless, corporate entities (which they are, to an extent. Let's be realistic, people). And yes, I know that real, actual pepole work for them. Everyone always demonizes them unfairly, to an extent. In my opinion, there should be just enough healthcare stuff to get people who have fallen on hard times back on their feet. However, there needs to be a cutoff point somewhere, to prevent leeches. As for healthcare for everyone via the Feds, it sounds like a cute idea, but the less the Feds are in charge of, the better (in my opinion). But, what do I know; I'm a 17 year old gal, not a political analyst.
Remember, a government big enough to give you everything you want is also strong enough to take away everything you have. --Thomas Jefferson (I think)
@Ken
Yeah, it's absolutely abhorrent how we treat our old folk. Second only to how we (don't) take care of our military veterans. I say this as a relative of an ex-Marine and 3 WWII vets.
~Heather "your knowledge is only overshadowed by your stupidity" Williams
First off if the italian suit analogy is on this webpage.
ReplyDeletehttp://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/10/30/the-magic-of-financing-health-care-reform/
It took me forever to find it so i hope this helps the other people. The way i understand the article it means that our budget savings would be relative. We wouldn't actually spend more money we would simply try to cut back on there other parts of our budget. An analogy would be that buying a movie at a store would be twenty bucks, while ordering it online it would only be fifteen but it would also have a five dollar shipping fee. In both cases it would cost twenty dollars but the movie is more expensive at the store compared to online.
Many elderly are afraid that the health care reform would weaken Medicare. They believe that the younger people would get better care than the elderly. Many take Obama at his word and believe that he will not change it. They believe that they will all be treated fairly and are not worried.
I read the villians article and yes i believe that Obama is unfairly attack the insurance companies. He generalizes the companies claiming that they are all evil cooperations that are trying to cheat you out of your money and will do everything that they can to protect the money that they have. Of course there are some organizations that are less fair than others but all of the insurance companies are made up of people trying to make a living and by hurting the companies he would be hurting their job security.
@ Kenny
The doctors will always try to work for the best hospital that they can find so there will always be problems with hiring at poorer areas and free clinics.
@ Everyone
The link for the analogy was hard to find i posted it up above on my entry so that you don't have to waste as much time as i did.
Abby Eldredge pd 1.
ReplyDelete1. Okay wow I didn't really follow that whole article but hey o well. It is pretty much saying that we don't know exactly if we are saving money anyway because we are estimating it from our baseline. We think that we have leeway room to spend other money if it isn't going over the initial budget when really no matter what the money is going to get spent. So it is pretty much like anything you buy in life. The health care budget is trying to see how much room they have to spend money in other ways so say you were going to get a sandwhich at a cafe and only had $5 and find out that the sandwich is on sale for $2. so now you have money to spend on say a soda or chips now either way that $5 is gone so you didn't save anything you just got more out of it.
2. The elderly are scared of reforms because they are afraid that they will lose their coverage that they have relied on. They have been told that they can keep their plans as long as they are happy with them and now the story is changing a little and it may cut into medicare. They are mostly for Obama because the plan was supposed to get the coverage away from insurance companies who are just trying to get as much money as possible even if it isn't fair. So basically the elderly are for his plan initially as a good idea as long as it doesn't change what they already have.
3. I read the villain article. I think that politicians do seem to really bash the insurance people making them out to be heartless but when hearing it from the prospective of an actual worker its different. It sounds to me like they are just doing their jobs which is doing what they are told to do. The general idea of the insurance companies however are unfair to many people but that is the fault of example and the plan of whoever is in charge.. I believe that many people abuse their insurance and there needs to be stricter rules. people keep having children so they can get more benefits. I believe if something horrible happens that there needs to be insurance help then by all means yes help them but it has to be case by case so that you can actually decide if the person is abusing the system. Some poor need help getting out of their hole but others are purely lazy so it has to be based on the specific case.
@kenny that's a really good idea on how to get doctors recruited I believe that with more reason and unity the system would work better
@hoover these blogs are getting way in depth and I'm losing interest really fast. I don't know if there is any way to make it better because I don't really completely understand all the articles that you are having us read! help?!?
Corey Pool Pd. 1
ReplyDeleteThe analogy used with the suit is horrible. All it really shows is that regardless of what you spend on something the money you save on it, you spend it anyways on something else. Another idea could be that popcorn is on sale at the movie theater. If all the money you brought was for popcorn, then you will take those savings and buy a drink.
So many older Americans are afraid of the healthcare reform because it will have the most effect on them. Yes others might have to pay taxes but the elderly that get screwed in the reform are the ones who need the medical attention. (more than the tax payers typically) On the other hand some are supportive because they aren’t getting the healthcare needed for their age.
I think that the insurance companies are being hammered a little too much. They are just doing their jobs. We may not like it, but to get it fixed you don’t complain about it. The government for the most part is the ones that set the laws and standards for the insurance companies that cause so many people to complain. I think too many people working as doctors are working more for the money than the idea of helping people. If you could change that mindset there would be such a need for doctors in places like Milwaukee because the doctors would be there because they care. It’s not likely to happen, but it would be nice if it did.
@Abby
I agree with your comment to hoover. These blogs are okay but they are getting even more boring and harder to understand; the articles at least.
@Kenny
I agree with you about how the elderly are afraid of losing their good coverage. All because the democrats say so.
Kyle Huntsberry Pd. 4
ReplyDelete1. What i got out of the first one is: Don't buy an Italian suit. Nah im just kidding. So basically what this article is trying to tell us is that there is a set or baseline at which we have and the C.B.O. estimates what new federal spending the proposed bill is likely to bring. A better analogy that could be understood by all of us is say you work for this new car that you are planning on buying for $20,000. You finally save up $20,000 and here the car is cheaper only costing $18,000. Now does that mean you have $2,000 for your own spending? Yes? Maybe? No? I think it does. You now have that $2000 you can use freely.
2.I believe that the elderly are afraid of the reforms because they fear that Obama may not be using them for the better or that they'll get nothing out of it. How long do they have? Will "people" help them or let them go? One lady stood out because she seemed to support it. She thinks that if its going to help those people in need of money and such that it should go to them and that its proper for obama to do so.The main concerns are just that if obama is going to fall through with what he has promised.
3. I kinda agree with kenny on this one. I read the Milwaukee clinic report and i believe that the poor should be dealt with differently. They shouldnt get any benefits or have any taken away but i think that they should just have certain insurances and rules to abide by. How can they get more doctors? I say demand for it! So many people dont have insurance or are poor due to the lack of good paying jobs around here, make sure people know that a doctor is always a needed career. Make sure you offer good $ and good benefits, and the doctors should role in. And with these "new" sum of doctors there will be less poor to worry about.
@ Zach
Hey thanx man for that link! i was actually looking for it for like 10 mins. I was having trouble finding it too! thanks you helped a lot! :)
@ Heather
I always love reading your kool little openings and closings!
Jenny Napierskie pd1
ReplyDelete1. This basically is the most terrible analogy ever. Seriously. A better one would be a sale on clothes at a store. Say there's a sale on shirts and if you buy two, you get a pair of socks for five dollars. You may be "saving" money, but you still are spending.
2. I think the elderly folk are for this idea Obama has, but only if it doesn't change their initial plan. They're scared that there will be a change on something that they've relied on so long.
3. It is really unfair of Obama to attack these insurance companies. Sometimes, yeah, they can be unreliable and seemingly take advantage of people, but they're trying to get this economy through this the same as we are. Both sides of this situation are equally as guilty. We should stop pointing the finger and help each other out.
Kenneth: I agree. I feel sorry for the poor old folks. They've worked all their lives and saved up for this and now it might change all of the sudden.
Zach: You're right. The people working at these companies are in the same situation as us, just trying to make a living.
Robert Schmuck, pd. 4
ReplyDeleteI had to read that article about five times until I actually understood it enough to say something other than, 'that article made no sense'. Of course, it still doesn't really make any sense, but here goes nothing. The article is saying that the government could implement a bill, but the cost or profit of this bill really depends on the way you look at it. From one point of view, or when compared to other legislation, a bill could really not seem that bad at all, but on the other hand, it might come across as too expensive with nothing to show for it. Another analogy would be that say you ordered a pizza on sale for $5. If it was originally $10, then you saved $5. But if it was originally $20, did you really save any more money? Either way, you spent $5. The actual benefit of the deal depends on how much you were originally going to spend for that pizza.
This article deals with the elderly's concerns as to what the health bill reforms will do to their medicare coverage. The biggest concern is that, in order to pay to cover everyone under this health care plan, the elderly may lose their own medicare plans that they are very happy with. Others support it, pointing out that Obama said that they could keep their medicare plans if they were content with them. In short, it comes down to whether they trust Obama and the government to carry out their promise to stay away from their medicare plans.
I read the article on Humana insurance, and yes, I think the insurance companies are being unfairly hammered. If Obama illustrated the story about his mother struggling with her insurance company while she was dying, why didn't he tell a story about how someone did get money from their insurance company and lived happily ever after? Not everything insurance companies do is inherently out of malicious intent, but pointing out the negative side of them is the easiest way for Obama to get what he wants. Plenty of businesses are going to cheat people to get money every once in a while, but as the article pointed out, the nature of insurance companies makes them easy to demonize.
Annelise Williams, p4
ReplyDelete1. It's basically saying that people have trouble putting limits on themselves and even if they spend less money they'll end up spending it all, but they'll overindulge. For example, if someone can save $300 on a TV, they'll buy a nice DVD player to go with it instead of a cheaper one. Even though they saved money on the TV, they didn't limit themselves on the DVD player and now all of their money is gone so it doesn't matter anyway.
2. The elderly are afraid of losing the support of programs like Medicare and having to pay too much for expensive health care. They're also afraid that their chances to get expensive procedures done will be given to the poor or illegal immigrants.
3. I read the 'Villains' article, and I kinda feel sorry for them. Sure, it's a pretty low-PR job, but much like being a taxcollector it's necessary with our current system (much like ants in the circle of life--they're annoying and everywhere, but killing them would throw everything off balance). I don't think government officials should be calling them villains, since they're just trying to do their job...
@Zach: Thank you! I was looking for that link for a while but I couldn't find it and I was worried that it was too late and the links had changed. xD; (For the record, I started this around 1:00 but went AFK for a while.)
@Kenny: I think that there should be some plan to help the poor, since making them work for it might be too high a jump. I think there just needs to be a transition step--you need to learn to crawl before you can walk, right?
Thomas Boyer pd 4.
ReplyDelete1. Well, basically the article says that even if something is cheaper, it doesn't mean you save anything. And that we spend so much money on setting up healthcare, that we don't really save much, and that we use other money to spend on it. If something is on sale and you buy a whole bunch, but you don't really need it, you waste money. But if you needed it, then you save money.
2. Well, the video doesn't work... Anyways... Elderly are against it because they have spent years finding the best coverage for their situation, and that would all be bull-dozed over for the new reform. Others might have trouble and can't pay for anything so it would be very helpful to them.
3. I read about the villians. Millions of people get coverage, and there are tons of insurance companies, but when just one problem occurs people make a big deal out of it. The poor can apply for cheaper coverage, and if they are really too poor, there are already ways they can get insurance. Doctors can have less requirements to own their own facilities, and state to state certification shouldn't be set up how it is, making it hard to work in other states.
@Kyle
Kenny didn't do that article... he did the villians article, so I don't see how you can agree with him.
@Kenny Grammar control? "Which did help them a whole lot before" Did you rush it or something?
Drew Holtzapple Period 4
ReplyDelete1. It says the savings is relative to the amount that you are comfortable spending. I don't really know how to put it more simply than the italian suit analogy. If you only want to spend $1000 on something and it is on sale for $800 than you SAVED $200 according to your budget. But if you only want to spend $700 then you are LOSING $100 according to your mindset even if it originally cost $1000.
2. They are afraid of the reforms because they are happy with the way healthcare is now. They know it is going to change and hope that it changes positively.
3. I read the Villains article. It sounds like Obama and Pelosi are calling out the healthcare companies. I think though from the healthcare companies perspective they don't think they are getting fair payment. They believe that they are being used just to pay bills and Obama is calling them out to try to gain support in my opinion.
@Heather: I agree Obama is being unfair.
@Zach: Thanks for the link, and yeah the companies are just trying to get paid fairly.
Jeff Harman Period 1
ReplyDelete1. I think it was a very bad analogy with the italian suit. Basically it was trying to say is that depending on how much you want to spend and what you do determines if you save or lose money. I can't really think of a better analogy to better describe this.
2. The older Americans are against health care reform because they have spent their whole life paying for themselves. Now they are going to be ask to help pay for care for younger Americans. Some would be for this if they believed their health care would be better.
3. I read the villains article also. I believe that it is completely unfair for Obama to attack these insurance companies. They are doing the best they can during the tough econimic times and they are not being helped by the government proposal for universal health care.
@ Jenny
I agree with you about the insurance companies and the government trying to help each other out.
@ Zach
You make a good point that older Americans are afraid medicare will weaken.
Well in this anthology, you are bying things and if they are a certian price, but you find them at a lower price then you've saved money.
ReplyDeleteWell older people are majority conservatives, they really don't like things to change. But they know that it might change for the better.
Well I read the milwakie case and the girl had taken her daughter to the doctors but had to take her to something less than normal. I thought it was okay the child did see someone. I think the insurance companies are fine. I think they could just walk into there and get help. They should work for the government.
@ Drew I agree with you about them just wanting to pay bills.
@ Annelise
I agree with you about them calling them villians
Savannah Gilmore pd 4
ReplyDeleteWhat I got out of the article was that money sort of goes in this continuous cycle of spending regardless of what it's being spent on. If I say, "I'm going to spend $50 on a phone," but the phone costs only $35, I'll probably spend the remaining $15 on something else.
Some older people have expressed concern that universal healthcare would lower the quality of their Medicare by giving portions of the money allotted to them to younger people. Others feel that Obama's plan would not ruin their Medicare at all while still helping millions of uninsured people. Also there was a quick mention of death panels by a lady who thought the healthcare bill would cause doctors to pick and choose who they let live? Somehow that seems exaggerated to me.
The Villains article didn't really convince me of the insurance companies' good moral standings. Even if they have perfect morals as individuals they aren't necessarily applying them to their work ethic. I'm sure the majority of insurance company employees are just working to have a job, but the bottom line is that they are still businesses and therefore are still aiming to make money (sometimes at the downfall of the consumer).
@ Zach
I was looking for about ten minutes for that link until I saw it under your post, so thanks for that!
@ Abby
I agree that the unfair policies are the fault of whoever is in charge, not the entire company or average worker.
Josh Firestone pd.1
ReplyDelete1) I had trouble finding this article so basically what I can formulate from other peoples comments the article is saying that budget savings could be good or bad we don’t really know. Although they expect them to be in a relative manner. That said I’m going to try to give an original example, lets say you have five dollars to spend at McDonalds and the dollar menu has just came out but you didn’t know about it. So you go in expecting to pay for a five dollar value meal when you can essentially get the same three thing s in the combo (soda, burger, fries) for three dollars. This means you have two dollars to mostly like spend on other crap instead of saving it. So the basic idea of the budget plan may get you more stuff but its most likely not going to save you money.
2) Older Americans are afraid of the reform because they fear that when the changes are made that they will have to pay more money to get less coverage. They also think that the coverage they get will be little to none because the government will just throw the elderly and sick to the back by being restricted from medical help. The people who support it do so because they have faith in Obama and find the situation similar to when social security came about, which currently helps every senior citizen.
3) I read the Villains article and basically the article talks about how insurance companies and their employees are being blasted and criticized by many politicians, congress people, and the president himself. They are unfairly criticizing them for just doing their job which is providing a good service to the people. These people are not villains at all they are for the most part just ordinary people. The poor can basically get themselves a job and provide there own care as far as I am concerned. I really don’t know how doctors can be recruited for the job because in my opinion they will get screwed over by the healthcare plan because there annual salary will most likely decrease.
@Zach
I also had a lot of trouble finding the first questions article, in fact i didn't find it.
@ Kenny
Was the whole comment on how you were first really necessary and do you really talk to and hit yourself?
By ryan
ReplyDeleteBasiclly my analogy to this is like what happened at my job the other day. The apple cider was on sale so some crazy couple thought that there would never be any apple cider after this fall soooo they bought 12 gallons of it. They saved money by buying 12 gallons on it when it was on sale but are they really gona drink 12 gallons of apple cider. This article delt with health bill and it talked about the how much revenue and subsities will be used.
2 Why are old people scared of health bill. They wont get that much coverage if it gets passed so that means even more angery old people :( not a good idea. But if the elderly voted for obama they are now pissed because they have to wait behind young adults for some coverage.
3 I read the villans article and i think that obama made it very unfair for insurance companies. It is tough now in days with the bad economy but now obama is making worst for them
@ kenny i agree with answer to #1
@abby i agree with you about how these blogs are getting harder and more boring.
Katelyn Owens, Pd. 4
ReplyDeleteThe Italian suit analogy pretty much says that no matter how much you think you save, you end up spending it on something else. Money will always be spent on something no matter what. Coupons do this a lot. If it says buy 2 get 1 half off something and you were only thinking about spending money on one or two items but since the 3rd is half off why not get it? You are still spending money on the 3rd article which you weren’t planning on getting before you got the coupon.
People that have been on Medicare for awhile now are scared that their coverage is going to be gone. They were originally told that their plans will stay the same as long as they were content with them. Now some of them are questioning Obama because they heard different stories that their Medicare plans may change. Older people don’t mind Obama’s initial health care plan but they don’t want it changing what they already have with Medicare.
I read the Milwaukee clinic report. When you read that it gives you a new perspective of what’s happening on the other end of the spectrum. People that can’t afford health insurance don’t think it’s necessary for them to go bankrupt over it. Everyone should be offered the same treatment but making someone who can’t afford it is difficult and that’s where the troubles begin. Hopefully eventually we can figure out a workable solution to this problem. Doctors are always wanted and needed. I think in high school there should be more medical experiences offered to students. Students need to become exposed in that field and that’ll help get them interested in it.
Katelyn, pd. 4
ReplyDelete@ Ryan
I like your analogy to #1. That is really funny! Who drinks 12 gallons of apple cider? Weird
@ Abby
I think I’m having the same trouble as you. The blogs are going too in-depth on too many different issues and I do not understand it as a whole very well.
Jamie, Period 4
ReplyDelete-- Does Corey know that he is period 4 not 1? Oh well here we go --
1. Basically what we are all taking away from this article is simple. We are getting the thought that we aren't saving money at all, not even a little. In fact it might seem like that to many people and many would just think that oh well just because we end up spending the same amount we're saving money on the actual thing. Well, true then I suppose you could say that we are "saving". However, that's not quite the case. Let's say I go to Africa to buy an elephant. The elephant in Africa is going to be 50 cents. However, when I go to Africa they are having a sale! They are giving me the elephant for only 25 cents. However, I need to buy toys and a water bowl for 25 cents. Therefore I am still spending 50 cents but to me it makes it seem like a bargin. Ironically this happens almost everyday in our lives, yet we'd like to think that we are getting a deal. Sadly, that's incorrect.
2. Well it's quite ashame that the older people are freaking out. However, I suppose they have every right to be. The elderly are afraid that they are not going to get as good care as they had. Meaning that a lot of their money would go to help the younger generations. They are afraid that they have done all of this searching for "amazing" coverage and now it might just be stolen right under their feets ..or at least changed a great deal. If it doesn't change anything then they are fine and trust Obama. I guess it's a split feeling.
3. I read through both of the articles because I just realized that I set aside too much time to do my homework. I'm not sure what I think. I believe to some extent they are just doing their jobs and yet I beleive they could do more. However, who exactly am I to say that? I don't have that job nor responsibility to understand. We're all going through tough times and there really isn't any need to snap at one eachother. Actually, that's probably half the problem. If we would get together and stop attacking people we might actually be able to come up with some decent idea/plan to fix things. That way there wouldn't be questions such as this one to be answered on a blog because there wouldn't be any need. But of course that would mean changing the way that us here Americans do things and ha, well that's a joke on its own.
I'm pretty sure Hoover said we didn't have to do comments anymore. However, better safe than sorry.
@Zach, everyone including myself thanks you for the link. I'm glad I am nosey and look through to see who has already posted and who hasn't. If I hadn't done that I wouldn't have found this :].
@Jenny, I agree with your last sentence to number 3 a 100 percent. We really do need to stop pointing fingers, you and I had the same thought process. I really wish people would take the time to just quit the aruging and quit the stalling of time just to bicker. There really is NO time nor real need for it. There could be so many different things fixed. Yet in a sense I feel as though I am contradicting myself. Here I am complaining about how things could be better yet I as well as everyone eles on here are just ranting, not actually doing. So I geuss I have no room to talk at all. Haha sorry Jenny I kinda ranted all throughout this :].
1. So the point the article is making is that if you are planning on spending $100 on say a dress, but it was on sale for $80, you then have extra money to spend on something else. However, I wasnt sure exactly if i understood it correctly.
ReplyDelete2. The medicare article pretty much talks about how some elderly people like their plans and others are up for reform. Those who have plans they like have to trust that the government will hold to their word and let their plans alone. For the others, they need to trust that president obama will make an improved plan that benefits them.
3. I read the insurance villains article and basically felt that the insurance companies are being targeted unfairly. As mr. hoover says in class, it's easier to tear someone or something down than it is to build it up.
1. Money is a continuous cycle, so we always find, so if we save money, we will find some way or another to spend it. If we find a sale in a store and we save $15, we'll find something that is $15 and spend it in a heartbeat.
ReplyDelete2. Elderly people always want to stick to a plan, and that is to have and support a great retirement. So they kind of support Obama, but they don't want to violate that plan that is set in elderly stone. So if Medicare is supporting them, they dont want to lose that if the plan changes that.
3. I read the villains article and what i say is that Insurance companies are just like us, regular human beings that want to make a living. So what Obama is doing to them in my opinion is wrong. They have jobs just like us, even if they are dirty rotten no-good insurance companies.
@ Josh
i like your answer to number 2, older americans really do want to stick to that plan so they dont have to pay more money.
@ Jenny
great analogy to number 1.
Claire Bleecker, Period 1
ReplyDelete1. I think the article is basically saying that the health care bill will project that they'll spend a certain block of money on healthcare and then say "oh look we can save x amount, so now we have that to put towards something else." The money isn't tangible. It's just a mind game. It's like paying with imaginary money. I think it is sort of like someone who spends too much on a credit card. They go to an outlet store and save mabye 25% on what they would have spent at a regular store. Now they figure in their head that they have that extra 25% of money that they saved to buy more outlet things with. Really they don't have the money in the first place.
2. Some of the elderly women in the video believed Obama and recognized that he said that they could keep the plans that they had if they were pleased with them. Others said they were going to cut Medicare costs (one woman reasoned that some people basically would say that once they reached a very old age that they don't have much longer to live) to compensate for other healthcare costs.
3. I read the article about insurance companies. It gives perspectives from insurance company workers but also the opinion that insurance companies are often unfair. I think that Barack Obama is in fact being too malicious to the insurance companies judging soley by this article and the address that he gave which we watched in class. But I also realize that the companies have to do their jobs and don't always do it fairly.
@Robert,
I agree that insurance companies should get treated a little more fairly and I like the fact that you pointed out that this is probably a tactic of Obama's to get this bill through. Maybe he is overdramatizing how he even feels about the insurance companies to persuade the public.
@Corey,
I like your analogy but I think it was exactly the same as the the Italian suit analgoy except you replaced suit with popcorn and watch with drink.
Rachael Paules Period 4
ReplyDeletefirst off, i forgot to put my name with my post, so sorry for that.
@ katelyn/abby - I agree, there are too many topics to research. I'd rather go more in depth in one topic and understand it well.
@ savannah - i was confused by the first article and your simple explanation was short and to the point. it was great to help me understanding it.
@ Corey
ReplyDeleteHow would taking money out of the equation give you more doctors. If you get rid of the people who only want to be doctors because they get lots of money, you won't get more doctors, you'll just get better doctors. A better alternative would be to make it easier for the people who actually want to be doctors to become doctors, mostly financially-speaking.
@ Katelyn
I agree that it would help the medical world to provide more opportunities to high school students to witness the world of being a doctor and all that. But then, it all depends on the specific high school or type of school. For all you know, Dover could be one of the only high schools that doesn't offer very extensive options in that area. And it's also very hard to go into depth in any given subject in high school. High school classes are better designed to be more general. How would you decide what classes to ask for on your schedule if there were a hundred different classes to choose from? Classes like that only really work in college when you have a set major and know where you want to end up and therefore exactly what classes to take, in theory.
Taylor Shenberger
ReplyDelete1. Okay. So i got this from the suit: We technically are saving money with the healthcare, because we're spending a smaller amount of money, but we're not technically gaining any money anywhere, so does it really count? Saving is only good if you save the money for something else. If you just keep it as spending money then it doesn't really matter that you saved in the first place. Another analogy is that dover could have gotten sued for two million dollars, but instead got sued for one million dollars. In the end we did technically save money, but it still pretty much means that dover is still poor.
2. They're scared because they think they might get less coverage, but they are supportive because they have faith in their president so they're hoping he knows what hes doing.
3. I did the milwaukee clinic one. It's pretty much saying that people are running out of doctors, and even when there are doctors their usually out of peoples price ranges. and this is a clinic that can help the poor but its struggling to stay open. I think it's always going to be like that because the poor people who need the clinic can't afford to support the clinic, and the people with money don't need the clinic anyways. Obama's health care plan seems like the only thing that you can do to care for the poor. I think Chip in Pennsylvania is good for poor children whose parents cant afford to buy them insurance. Doctors can be recruited if there is more incentives to be a doctor. I'm sure people want that kind of money but they don't want to spend another ten years in college to achieve it. That's just how things are though.
@Tasha- I'm glad that the daughter got seen also. Kids should be covered no matter what. At least a minimum coverage.
@Katelyn- Okay. I agree. I don't think people should go bankrupt over medical coverage. When my dad was in the hospital his bills added up to around $300,000 before he died. There was no way that my stepmom could afford that even if my dad would have gotten better and came home. The hospital had this thing called a hardship fund that covered everything because they checked into it and realized that there was no way that she could ever afford to pay that money back. I think things like that should be used.
St. Clair Simmons Pd. 4
ReplyDeleteThe whole Italian suit thing is a nice analogy. I enjoyed that. It's saying that saving money on something doesn't necessaruly mean that you'll end up better than you were before. Sometimes, it even costs you more. It's like seeing "low carb" on your TV dinner, and eating two instead of one, because it's low carb and you won't get fat.
2. Old people, as well as all people, are entitled to their opinions about the health bill. Their concerns are that they won't get covered, even though that's what the health bill is trying to do. Oh, well.
3. I think Obama should be less agains the insurance companies and vice versa. If They would stop being on opposite sides, we could get something done.
Nicole Lucas Period 4
ReplyDelete1. The article is just basically talking about how the health care bill will add more money to our deficit, and that Obama is concerned on how much money will be added to the bill. The article said that the health care bill wouldn't add as much money, compared to the health reform bill Bush signed in 2003, which has added trillions of dollars to our deficit. The health reform bill is being budgeted now with money that we may not have at the moment. An analogy would be that you have $30. You go shopping and buy a shirt you need for $15. So then would that mean you go spend the other $15 cause you didn't use it all, or just save the extra cash for a later day?
2. Older americans are afraid of the reform because they think that they're Medicare will be minorly cut from them in certain areas and that they'll need to pay more money out of their pockets for this health care bill. Some are supportive just because they believe in Obama and they wanna give him a chance. They think he'll do the right thing and make this bill fair for everyone. Some main concerns are that the elderly will have to pay more, that they'll get turned down for MRI's or such things and that they'll have to wait for a long period of time to get these things done.
3. I read the Milwaukee article. I don't think the insurance companies are being ufairly hammered. The clinic should be insured but no insurance companies will insure them. More doctors could be recruited to serve by getting doctors right out of college to come intern and help out. The poor need health care too. The clinic in Milwaukee is a nice place for the less fortunate to go and get taken care of. Facilities like that should be placed under the stimulus package and the health care bill to get money to help support them.
@ Kenny
I agree with you about the elderly being afraid of this bill. Seems like a lot of them are regretting voting for Obama now, they don't want their money taken from them, or their benefits from Medicare.
@ Katelyn
I agree that everyone should be offered the same treatment.
St. Clair
ReplyDelete@Jamie
If you wanted said elephant, and were prepared to spend fifty cents on it, and set aside twenty five cents to buy elephant needs, you would be spending less money. Instead of seventy five, you'd be spending fifty.
@Katelyn
There's only so much a high school can do, as far as teaching it's kids. There aren't really classes that are focused on stuff like that. That's what college is for.
Casie Strausbaugh
ReplyDeleteWhat the article is pretty much saying i think is that The Italian suit theory says that even if your under the inpression that you saved alot you probably will end up spending it somewhere else. I think Katelyns example of coupons are perfect! you think your saving money but in reality you spending way more then you probably planned.
2. I think older Americans would be against this, because they are expected to pay for the younger people. but growing up they had to pay for themselves, so i can see why this would affect their opinions.
3. i read the villian insurance one. and i agree with most people in the way that obama is being unfair and that people really do just have to do what they have to do to make a living
@ Rach
I def agree with you number 3!!!
@ josh
i totally agree with you number 3 as well. i think you said what a lot of people were thinking.
Lamar Lehman pd 1
ReplyDelete1. I guess the article means that we can save money by reforming health care, but if we do something else with the money we save were not really saving any money. I guess the whole suit analogy is a good thing. I guess it is ok because two things for the price of one are still better than just one same old thing.
2. Elderly people are scared that a new healthcare plan will come out of their own pockets, which it probably will anyway. They also think that they will lose their coverage under a new plan. Some people are supportive because they generally think that the healthcare system needs reform. Generally, the main concerns are who and how and going to pay for the healthcare system.
3. I read the article about the clinic in Milwaukee. This article basically talks about this non profit medical clinic that has provided care to people that can't afford it for years. However, it has seen its funding cut back, hours are cutting back, and doctors are leaving. Everyone agrees that this is a bad thing. I don't think that the insurance companies are being unfairly hammered. I also think that more clinics like this should be opened up to care for people that can't afford health insurance. I think that more doctors can be recruited if we find people with good enough hearts to do it without a lot of pay.
@nicole
ReplyDeleteI agree with you that insurance companies aren't being unfairly hammered
@casie
I agree with you that most older americans would be against a new healthcare plan
Nathan Flory Pd. 4
ReplyDeleteHey this is my first blog with windows 7 and so far its actually better than Vista
This suit analogy is kinda stupid. To me it’s like buying a new video game system or laptop or what have you when it first hits the market. If you wait a month or two it goes down in price and you could go to a different store and get for less there to.
This bill could easily be a thorn in the side of the elderly in America. It’s natural that the federal government would need to save some money somewhere because the coverage is going to be spread out but the health care bill is not meant to care for most of the people in America, so they don’t need to worry about a change to a Canadian-like system.
I read the Villians article. I think that the companies are mostly covered in a negative light because they are the only intresting stories that come from health care companies. No one what’s to hear about a person who needed a life saving sugery got the surgery because the insurance company she’s been with for ten years paid for it. Will the Health Care bill force the insurance companies to be more personal so that they can save money or will not really change at all. Well we may find out in a few years if the bill doesn’t somehow crash and burn on the floor.
Alex Cost Period 4
ReplyDelete1. Basically the analogy says that saving money is a myth because you just spend it on more of the same thing. For example, say i go to wal-mart to buy a new ash ketchum outfit. I see one for 20 and one for 30. Obviously i buy the one for 20. But now i have that extra 10.... maybe i'll go to petsmart and get a rat that i can paint yellow. I think i got a bargain, where as i still just got a freaking sweet outfit.
2. I think that they believe in free health care comes a decrease in quality, however they have hope of otherwise.
3. I read, because i'm in a malevolent mood, the villains article and i think that the insurance companies are being very fairly covered negatively. My mom gets health care for people without insurance or whose insurance won't cover them so i see and hear about hundreds of people who get ripped off by their insurers for very stupid reasons. Sure they cover a lot of people, but notice that they're all upper middle class white collar workers. They have no compassion for the poor.
Nikki Elicker
ReplyDeletePeriod One
1. What the article is saying is just because we save money on one thing...doesn't mean we're saving the money. If you go to Turkey Hill with $3 and see that Slushies are on sale, Any size for $1.50, of course you're gonna buy the huge one and save a dollar. But what are you gonna do with that Dollar then? You're gonna go buy a Hershey's Bar. Don't lie...you know youre gonna. Just bcause you saved money on the Slushie, doesnt mean you actually saved the money (because you spent it on the Hershey Bar)
2. Well elderly are generally afraid of change, new electronics, new music, new fashion (seriously look at your grandma's wardrobe and tell me she's not afraid to dress like someone from the 21st century). Other than change...a big fear is loss of quality. Although that may not be a big deal to those who are healthy and well, it is to people that are greatly dependant on health insurance, like the elderly.
3. I read the article about the clinic in Milwaukee. This clinic provides medical care for people who can't afford it. They are suffering a loss of doctors, which makes sence. If i went to school to be a doctor, and i got paid very little, how am i supposed to pay back my loans? What if they had students do their residency at a place like that. Instead of working at a regular hospital, they should work at a low pay, non profit hospital. It would not only teach them how to be doctors, but it would teach them sympathy.
stephen magilton pd 1
ReplyDelete1. i couldnt find this article. but i will read other people comments and get an idea. it seems to me that the italian suit was an attempted analogy. i'll try one based on others. i guess its like the 'extra bucks' at cvs. for items on sale, you pay full prise for but you receive a dollar or two in 'extra bucks' that you can only spend in cvs. for example they advertise to buy candy for 4.99 with 2.00 extra bucks so its like getting it for 2.99.
2. the old people are afraid of the health care because it will make them pay more and change it. they need the care the most since they are older and need medical attention. obama is stuck because he wants everyone to have health care im sure (obviously) but to give that to the poor would make others pay more. if he makes a dicision, people will be against him, if he doesnt, people will be agianst him. one of many decisions going on like this. wonder why presidents age so much?? the older people voted for him but are changing their minds now. they are afraid of the future becaue they dont know what will happen to thier health care coverage.
3. the milwaukee article talks about a lady taking her children to a near bankrupt doctors office because she would be seen sooner than taking her to the hospital or family doctor. this office is losing money rapidly and has to lower the number of patients it sees. the head doctor doesnt get paid to keep the office running. therefore, he doesnt have health insurance. im not even sure what to do to get more doctors in there. i'd say go to the government to get money but you'd probably have better luck talkign to a brick wall. if it doesnt have money, there isnt much it can do. a hospital like this needs to open more often with doctors treating patients out of their hearts. maybe have a bake sale or something to get money too...
@lamar
touching about the doctors having big hearts. so touching i added it in mine.
@everyone
thanks for helping me with number one haha. it looks like we have better analogies than the article showed.
Grant Brown, period 1
ReplyDelete1.) At least from what I gathered, the article is basically saying that when you save money one something, it’s more of a “not spending it on THAT” than actually saving the money. One analogy would be saving money for an iPod, and a week before you buy it Apple drops the price and its 100 bucks cheaper- you still buy it, but now you also spend the 100$ you didn’t spend on a random crappy online deal.
2.) I know with my grandparents they trust their political party, and its ideals, etc. Therefore when a person who doesn’t share the same ideas as them comes along, they’re a little suspicious. Basically, I think older people find security in the things that they’ve always had or known they’ve had, and they don’t want to risk that security with change, of any kind.
3.) Milwaukee- the article explains about a non-profit treatment center helping people on Medicaid and those without it, and how there should be a middle ground between the two. I agree, although I don’t know what it would be. Lastly, I think you need to find driven doctors who want to come, not necessarily recruited. (Though that’s probably an idealistic statement.)
@ Nikki – I agree with what you said about old people and change, I see it too.
@ Robert- When I read your post saying you didn’t get the article, I knew I had no chance. I was right.
Alex Hamm Period 1
ReplyDelete1. The article essentially says that when you save money on something, it's more of not actually spending the money on that particular thing than it is actually saving money. An example of this would be walking into a clothing store and seeing that a shirt is on sale for half price and buying the shirt and then in turn buying another shirt with the "extra" money. I digress.
2. Elderly are generally afraid of change. They are afraid of the quality of the olden times being taken away from them by some young whippersnappers who have nothing in mind but the youth of today.
3. Milwaukee-the article explains about a non-profit treatment center helping people with government healthcare and those without it, and how there should be a middle ground between the two poles. I do agree, this agreement however does come with some degree of uncertainty as to what a solution would be.
@ Nikki- agreed
@ Casie-agreed
Hmm...
ReplyDeleteSo I definitely didn't find the Italian Suit thing... I am thoroughly confused by this sector of the prompt and the link.
I can think of a good analogy though....
This issue is like the Dresden fire bombings.
It is a HOT topic.
HAHAHAHAHAHA
No really, I couldn't find it.
Could I get an extension on this due date to look into it more? I feel like I just don't know enough and the website you linked to is not helping...
Dresden? I'm not sure what you're talking about!!!!! We can fix the links on Monday!
ReplyDeleteStewart pd 1
ReplyDelete1. uhmm well its more saying that if you get something on sale you'll have more money to buy other stuff. like for girls buying homecoming dresses if we get one on sale we'll have more money for shoes or jewelry.
2. well the article is saying that the elderly are supportive because they understand how good health care would be for those who need it, but theyre nervous about the money coming from their pockets. Not only that but the elderly are scared that their needs to go to younger people instead of them. Like a lady said she needed an MRI but she didnt want them to say.. sorry theres someone 45 who needs it. so i guess theyre conserned about whether the changes will be good or bad.
3.i read the one about the milwaukie clinic. its pretty much just telling about a few people that didnt have health care and couldnt get it, and they really need it to get checked out. everyone needs to have the choice to go to the hospital or doctors if somethings wrong, but i dont think everyone else should be paying for it so idk. i kinda think insurance companies should make deals with the people so both can get what they want. but i dont know what could be done or whatever because it doesnt really concern me. but doctors right out of college could be recruited. they're experienced but learning i guess.
Brook Warren Pd. 1
ReplyDelete1. The article is basically saying that if you save a certain amount of money and then discover you don't need to spend all of it, you'll have money left over that you'll spend on something else! Like if you go to the movies expecting to pay 10 dollars for a ticket and it turns out to be only be 7, you're gonna use the extra 3 bucks to buy a water because you have the money and it's the only thing that's that cheap at the movies.
2.The elderly are slightly worried about the changes going on with the reform. They were fine with the original plan that Obama had of stopping the insurance companies from taking money and allowing them to stick with their plans they have. But now that may be changing and some of the new reforms may cut into medicare.
3. Milwaukee- it takes about an non-profit treatment center that is caring for people with and without insurance. The problems is finding a middle ground for the 2. I think the only way doctor's would come is if they have an incentive to help without anything promised to them.
@Grant- agree with the doctors wanting to come not be recruited.
@Kenny- agree with how elderly feel about the new reform
For all of us November 2 posters:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.humorbin.com/showitem.asp?item=867
I felt the need for a funny.
Any-hoo,
1. I think I get what it’s saying…? (I’m trying not to cheat….)
With the healthcare bill, the government would be saving more money over time than it was with Medicare, or more specifically the government would have leeway and be able to use the money for more necessary things. Or things it deems necessary.
2. Old people are worried they won’t be covered as efficiently under the Health Care Bill as they were under Medicare because they would have to share even more with those dang whipper snappers. Some, though, aren’t too worried and believe they’ll be treated fairly as they’ve been told.
3. Villains: Obama has portrayed the insurance companies as evil giant corporations out for all of your money, rather unfairly. Yeah, there are oodles of loopholes in insurance policies and such, but the people working there are just trying to make a living just like everyone else. It seems relatively true that the Health Care Bill will damage some insurance companies, who will in turn have to lay off people, just like any other company would.
Yetter pd. 4, by the way.
ReplyDeleteTahi Khan
ReplyDelete1. it's basically saying, if you have extra money on the side from saving from something else, you end up spending that money too.
2. The elderly like to stick with things without change or hassle. For example, JOHN McCAIN. Old farts are scared of the health care plan because they fear that their current plan would be demolished. On the other hand, the elderly are the largest group to vote in the U.S.
3. After reading the Villain article, i see the other side of the story. It is true that politicians are being unfair to the insurance companies. They are afraid that they'll lose their jobs if the new health care plan takes place.
@ Casie,
yeah, i agree with you too. the insurance companies won't have jobs if the new healthcare plan gets issued.
@ Alex H,
you're right about old people being afraid of change.
My post keeps exceeding the 4,096 character limit...
ReplyDeleteStefon, Pd. 4
ReplyDeleteAlright, I am pretty sure I have an opinion now that I have done some research.
I would like to credit this research to both The Huffington Post and Fox News Network.
1.The article is very poorly voiced in my opinion. It sounds as if a choleric fiscally conservative teenaged male child wrote this. Not the usual Associated Press voice we are used to in politically informative articles. The article explained certain flaws in the plan of President Obama and didn't back a lot of its claims up with citations or facts. The overall integrity of this citizen's opinion is bent to just be opinion by the un-backed claims such as '“Financing” meant simply adding federal spending to the deficit and then looking to the Chinese, Japanese and Middle East potentates to lend us that money.' The article never cites any case in which the US has acted in such a manner. Though, we have, as is publicly accepted as ruth, borrowed money from The People's Republic of China. The article essentially questions whether or not this new system would actually benefit those in need. There are hints of bias in favor of the upper class, however. This is seen here when the author says “On the other hand, if I would have spent at most $1,000 for a suit or gone without, then I could spend only $100 on a watch without violating my budget neutrality.” So you must keep in mind that this was written by a man with money to throw at a $1,000 garment. This was not all that didn't sit right with me about this article. The article attempts to sound neutral, and it just winds up coming across as self contradictory and thrown together. Overall, I think it could have been better executed.
I don't really think an analogy would truly cover this issue. It is better understood when studied and read into directly, as I recently found.
2.The elderly in this video are worried they will lose their coverage that they are content with now despite the president's promises that they may keep their current plans. Now also, they are worried that they will be paying for others' coverage in which they do not benefit. But in my opinion, and this is just opinion, they are already doing what they don't want the other citizens to do and living off of society's contributions to the current system. Not to say they have no right to be fearful. I think at most though we should be cautious with any new plan. I see their argument, as well as any other side's. It just seems to me that we must give systems chances at improving our nation. No matter how socialized. Nothing is too permanent here.
Stefon Pd 4, continued
ReplyDelete3.I watched the video on the Milwaukee clinic. I am at the least disturbed by this total abandonment and disregard for human health. It isn't correct for our government to continue as it has been doing under previous presidential administrations. It is time our nation take steps towards a team effort health system. It is no secret that we all must sacrifice to benefit. Without sacrifice in an economic crisis there can be no benefit. The insurance companies are not all terrible. I see that there are many Americans who are not insured, such as the doctor in the video who has developed heart issues. This is a clear exposure of the flawed insurance system we have come to known. Once again, I say this is not right for this system to neglect any person. ESPECIALLY not the people like this man who has sacrificed his own health just to provide acceptable care to the less fortunate. More doctors can not be lured in like fish. Self benefit is no reason to take part in charitable life-saving work. The sort of healthcare provider who will be attracted by self-gain are not the types anyone should have taking care of them. So nothing should be done to attract interest from doctors to do work at these clinics. I think that maybe there should be some type of government-funded program to employ willing doctors and provide them with fair benefits so they are not full volunteers, because like the man who runs this clinic in Milwaukee they are also citizens in need of care. Nobody should have to give up their own deserved well-being for another's. Everyone MUST work as a group effort in these times.
@Heather
I don't mean to sound condescending because at first I didn't understand fully as well. BUT I really don't think you have a decent understanding of this [admittedly] obscure and poorly thought out and/or expressed analogy.
@Alex H.
I don't mean to tear your opinion down. But what are you basing this generalization regarding the elderly having a fear of change on? Self experience, in other words, opinion? Stereotyping? Did you watch the video and the opinions expressed by the people in it? They have very rational doubts if they do have them...
Shawn Vincent pd. 1
ReplyDelete1. I thought the italian suit analogy was a remarkable one at that. i'm wearing one as i type this. an even better one though would be going to CVS with the intent of purchasing a set of razors for six bucks, finding out there on sale for four, and then buying..idk..shaving cream with the other two dollars. (maybe the shaving cream is on sale too) Case and point: when you have extra money with which you intended to use, you'll purchase something else.
2. To me this is a matter of elderly people fearing change, and really just wanting the traditions of health care coverage to stay constant for them. that's why they're irritated about it.
3. I read the villians article, and perhaps Obama has some beef with Insurance company that delves beyond rationalization, but when it comes down to it, theres a lot of fishy business going on with insurance companies, and they've been screwing people over for too long, he's just trying to shove that down our throats. I do think it would be terrible if they lost their jobs but..they're evil.
@ Casie, i do think it would be terrible if they lost their jobs but..they're evil.
@ jeff, i do think it would be terrible if they lost their jobs but..they're evil.
http://windlols.blogspot.com/
ReplyDeleteShameless plug.
I think theres a real difference between the intellectual exploration of the topic, along with the proper analysis AND the "I need to get this done for a grade" angle. The fact is, most students and voters for that matter are engaged in the latter----they don't look at the video, read the support materials or formulate a complicated opinion. They just do what they think is needed to get by....
ReplyDeleteKudos to the analytical thinkers and here's to all the rest.... I fervently hope there's something intellectual that tickles your fancy.
@tom
ReplyDeletetom if you would have read the other story you would have understood what i said.... >_<
Danni Barlow
ReplyDeletepd. 1
1. All this article is really saying is that if we can save money with this healthcare bill we will be able to spend it. I mean ti like buying socks at walmart if you get there and its like buy one get one free then you have extra money you can spend on something else or possibly save it.
2. They are afraid because lets face it one no one has really tried this hard to do something like this before and two if this goes through they are afraid that they will lose their good coverage.
3.I read the villians article. From the sounds of it Obama just really doesnt like the insurance companies. I mean they are the only companies that have been there for people unlike this health care bill. Yea ok some companies have screwed poeple over but all in all i believe they really arent as bad as people make them out to be
@ shawn
really the insurance companies arent that bad!
@ Casie
you have a good point about how tha insurance companies may not have jobs and thats one thing america doesnt need to do is take jobs away!